Tuesday, March 3, 2009

Raid frame challenge: first impressions of Healbot

BIG DISCLAIMER: Please see this and future posts on the subject for what they are: experiments and exploration, a chance to test out the other mods and report back to you on A) how easy or difficult they are to understand at first, and B) how they compare to what I want out of a raid frame mod. Yes, I love Grid to bits, I think it is fantastic. But I am perfectly capable of examining other mods and giving an honest and objective assessment of their cool points and failings.

PLEASE DO NOT leave comments attacking me because you think I am insulting your choice of addons.

This is a project to help the healing community get more of a balanced idea of the old Grid vs Healbot debate, the main points of which are usually "Healbot can't do what Grid does" and "Grid is stupidly complicated and takes hours and hours to set up." I'm here to actually give you an honest and frank assessment of what I think of the other mods, and where possible, compare the features (as much as I can as someone who hasn't used them for a long time).

Certainly if you think I have made a mistake, that I've missed a feature or said Healbot can't do something that it actually can, feel free to let me know, but please don't frame it as though I am launching an attack on Healbot. I am actually doing this to dispel the old idea that 'Healbot is bad and Grid is good and if you like Healbot you're bad'.

I DON'T HATE HEALBOT. I'm doing this to help, so please don't get your knickers in a knot over it.

Thank you.

__________________________



Well, so far I'm impressed with Healbot out of the box.

I wanted to approach it without reading any instructions, how-tos, or anything. A complete Healbot newbie. I wanted to see how easy it was for me to set it up considering that I have never touched the mod before - so I could see through the eyes of someone who is new to UIs and may be looking for advice on which mod to use.

I won't go into big detail because I'm still in the middle of trying to set it up to be a second raid frame to use this week, but I have to say I really like how simple it is. Some things I like so far:
  • very simple menus; everything is in front of you on tabs, rather than in dropdown/hierarchy lists, which can be a pain to remember and navigate

  • detailed tooltips at your cursor tell you exactly which heals are assigned to your buttons

  • the entire frame can be displayed as one column (as many old school raiders prefer), or in as many columns as you prefer. Grid is not as flexible in this way (I believe you need an extra addon, if this is even possible). I prefer a grid, but I know lots of people prefer to have one vertical column of health bars on the side of their screen, so it's good to have that option.

  • it's also extremely easy to swap between traditional "green health bar" style frames and by-class colouring (I prefer the latter). By using a few slider boxes and checking a couple of buttons, I made my Healbot's basic bar layout look just like Grid (ignore the HoTs!):


Healbot and Grid side by side - Healbot changed to look like my Grid settings


I would estimate that making Grid look like that, if you hadn't played with the mod before, would probably take close to an hour to find the right options and then get everything done by trial and error. Most of the time would be taken trying to find which of the menus to go to for each option (again, though, this is mostly related to the huge number of options Grid gives you). The ability to immediately find and change the look of Healbot really impressed me.

At first glance it seems that my assumptions (and what I've heard) were correct - the level of customisation isn't as great as with Grid. I can tell that immediately; all of the basics are there (and that's all that a beginner would need), but I can tell that I wouldn't get anywhere near the customisation options. The tradeoff, though, is that you can virtually use this mod immediately (after you assign your heals and cleanses). This would make it extremely easy for a complete UI beginner to use.

I'm also not sold on Healbot's HoT display; to a beginner it is probably great, but to me it is inflexible (I can't choose to separate them to different corners) and cluttered. But I will go into that in more detail when I actually do the write-up.

So far though, I'm pretty impressed. Looking forward to tweaking it more and actually testing it out.

58 comments:

Anonymous said...

You can't put the hot timers into a corner each but that isn't really a problem it's just you as a grid user trying to make it look visually like grid. You could equally say when evaluating grid that you cannot move the dots out of the corners. What you can do is alter the size of the hot timer and the size of numbers ticking down so they do not greatly obcure your view of the health bar if you choose a smaller size bar.

Anonymous said...

"At first glance it seems that my assumptions (and what I've heard) were correct - the level of customisation isn't as great as with Grid."

Would be useful if you could substantiate this statement with what healing (just healing nothing else)functions are available on grid which are not available on healbot.

Thanks.

Keeva said...

Let's not get defensive guys, I'm doing this to compare the pros and cons of all of the mods, not to bash Healbot. I'm doing this with as little bias as possible and approaching it with an open mind.

At the same time though, I want to test that it can do what I want it to do - functions that I know I can get out of Grid, now I want to see if the other mods will do the same things - that is the great debate from way back; whether Healbot (etc) can do this stuff or not.

So please don't get annoyed and defensive, this is not an exercise in insulting Healbot or its users, it's to help people finally get an idea of the pros and cons of both, without the heavy bias of opinions from people who have ONLY ever used ONE.

==================

Anon1: actually, with Grid you can put the squares anywhere you like - corners, squares, and you can change the size of them, have one in the corner and smaller ones around them. You can also change them to icons, or just have them as text counters. Or nothing at all. So in that respect, Grid wins hands-down on the subject of HoT timer options, which, as a druid, is obviously very important to me.

Healbot shows you the icon and the timer, but the format is hard to read unless you scale the icon right up (which makes the frame very cluttered). You also can't put them in a particular order, they show up in the order you cast - whereas Grid allows you to put each HoT in a corner (or side, or center).

With Healbot I could put the icons off to the side of the bar, but I think this would only work if you are using a single column layout.

Otherwise, you have to make your bar bigger to accommodate the size of a larger icon to in turn accommodate the size of larger text to be able to read it well. As you can see in the picture, I can't see my name or health deficit because it is obscured by the icons; I could make the bar bigger, but obviously that affects my screen real estate a lot.

It also only counts down in whole seconds, whereas I really need a more accurate timer on my Lifebloom.

=================

Anon2: I will be going into full detail later, when I've had a chance to fully set it up and assess all of the things that I want it to do.

I'll be going through the good and bad points of both, but my initial investigations point to what I had already believed - that Healbot has all the basic functions pretty much ready to go out of the box (great for new users), but if you want more than that, Grid will do it (if you're willing to invest the time).

For example, I can see straight away that I can only choose one colour to assign to ALL custom debuffs. With Grid I can assign a custom colour to every one; so on Felmyst I used to have pink for Encapsulate and green for Corrosion on the tank. If I wanted them in Healbot, it would appear that they would both have to be the same colour, which would be a problem for me on that fight.

The HoT counter options, as mentioned above, I find to be superior in Grid - easier to read, less cluttered, and the text isn't bound to the icon, so you don't have to have massive icons just to be able to read the timers.

So, basically, I can see straight away that Healbot would be very simple and quick to master if you're new at UIs - it has all the basics ready to rock, you only need to specify a few things. Grid, on the other hand, has about a billion options (sadly the menus need a lot of work), if you're willing to put in the work.



Please realise that I am doing these tests with an open mind, and if Healbot doesn't seem to have what I want or display something how I like, I don't just put a black mark and decide it's stupid. I keep exploring to find out if I must missed the option (eg being able to adjust the icon and text size), and if it still won't do what I want it to do, I see how close I can get it, and whether that option is acceptable for how I like to play.


Please don't get defensive, I'm not here to act superior because I use Grid. This is something I am doing for the healing community to dispel the myths that Healbot is terrible and Grid takes years to set up, etc. I'm actually doing this because I want people to see the merit in Healbot, but at the same time test out whether it is something that I (as a resto druid) would find effective in place of Grid.

To once and for all look at both mods squarely and fairly, and present their good and bad points honestly - so people don't only have the biased opinions of die-hard Healbot or Grid or Pitbull or Xperl fans touting their own mod as the best, period.

Keeva said...

I'd really like it if readers and commenters could try to keep an open mind while discussing this. It is an opportunity to really discuss the good points and failings of the mods without getting mixed up in the dumb biases that a lot of people have.

I'm already getting a negative, defensive vibe, as if people think this project is my way of "proving" that Grid is better. It's not. It's to look at the good and bad in both, and let people make up their own minds.

Everyone should note that 90% of that post was actually praising Healbot, with a small comment that I don't really like the HoT display (but that it would likely be adequate for fresh users).

How this can be misconstrued as me bashing Healbot I don't know. It's hard to read tone through text, but I sincerely hope people take these posts for what they are, and don't assume that I'm just another Grid lover trying to cram my opinions down your throat.

Zepherd said...

Ur an idiot healbot is waybetter than gird.

Anonymous said...

You guys should just let up a bit. Keeva has done an extensive test on these so far, and offered her opinions on those mods.

Alternatively, you could visit my blog where I would have simply said:

Healbot sucks.
Grid Sucks.
You all suck.
Post end.

Grow up and discuss, don't critisise.

-Arc

Birk said...

I for one really appreciate what you're doing here, and actually documenting it.

I've recently (hmm might have been some time back in TBC) done the same, where I went from CTMod which I had stuck with since my first MC run, to Grid.
But changing from Grid to X-Perl because I couldn't get used to those ugly small squares (and unfortunately I didn't have the time to go into settings when I made this change) :).
Later on when I switched from X-Perl to PitBull I tried PerfectRaid which actually works rather well.
But I soon missed my old CTMod feel of things, with groups placed on my screen, so I switched to the PitBull raid frames, which I'm happily using now (and I like that I have 1 less addon since my solo, party and raid all uses the same), although I've several times wanted to give Grid a more serious try.

Anyway I'm looking forward to you having a look at PitBull - which is my current favorite - then it'll be my turn to verbally assault your opinions ... naah I like to think I'm decent enough to maybe come with something constructive at that point :)

Anonymous said...

"actually, with Grid you can put the squares anywhere you like - "corners, squares, and you can change the size of them, have one in the corner and smaller ones around them. You can also change them to icons, or just have them as text counters. Or nothing at all. So in that respect, Grid wins hands-down on the subject of HoT timer options, which, as a druid, is obviously very important to me."

No no not defensive at all. So please don't you get defensive either. I didn't think you were bashing anything.
All the above is athetics. The hots are there, they are timed the ability to have them as dot or text is athetic value only and as you say it is subjective. I don't like those dots but this is personal to me. I have the icon size and the countdown timers text size such that I have no trouble reading, but again personal to me.

I was hoping for a discussion of what functions one provides over the other. I will filter your personal bias if it seeps through :) The hots to a decimal place is an improved function so that is of interest to me.

Custom debuff ..if it is not a debuff I can dispel, each has a different and designated colour, all I need to know is that the custom debuff for that particular fight is up and to heal through it..you don't need a different colour for each fight.

I think what I'm saying is that if they both provide the same functions and one doesn't provide greater functionality than the other then extra bells and whistles can become excessive (the human brain can only process so much - at least mine can) but can be nice if you like to tinker. You choose what you prefer. I think both healbot and grid perform the same task equally well everything else boils down to asthetics and personal choice. If you like dots absolutely fine grab grid.

I'm purely on the look out for extra functionality for healers.
Please do continue, don't take williness to debate with you as defensiveness. I'll do my part and keep in mind it's from the point of view of what you want.

Oh and Zepherd please go away...

Keeva said...

Ignore him, he's trying to stir me up :)

I definitely want to try to lay everything out and let people make their own decisions. I've already found a few things that I didn't think Healbot could do (eg colouring by class - yay!!).

I want people to be able to see the good points in both. And honestly, if Healbot is easier to set up, and it has all the features you need.. then people shouldn't push Grid. There's no point having all those bells and whistles if you don't actually need them.

So I'm setting out to find out if these mods have everything that I need. If not, what do they have that's close? And if they absolutely don't do what I need, then I will say so - but then everyone else will have to weigh up the pros and cons :)

Corgii said...

I agree with you on just about everything you touched on.

I myself tried Healbot a while back but I just wasn't able to get the hang of it. It felt really clunky and appeared rather bloated.

After reading through a different guide on how to configure grid to show and track every HoT I had, I never wanted to use a different mod again. Grid is awesome!

Parsley said...

Excellent post, I've been looking forward to this since you started talking about healing mods some time ago.

I used healbot myself when I first started healing, but moved very quickly to grid as I simply disliked the look of Healbot.

However recently a lot of my guildies have pointed out that healbot has improved substantially over the past two years, so it might be worth a re-visit.

The only issue I encountered previously in this whole discussion was the problem with healbot parsing incoming heals to grid (or rather to LibHealComm 2.0 in general), but I believe those have been solved, so each healer can use the UI of choice.

Keep up the good work =)

Keeva said...

I think they're getting closer and closer to each other in functionality and aesthetics.

I was surprised to see I could colour the frames by class (like Grid). That's a big deal for me, as trivial as it seems.

So I'm actually curious for myself - to see what I can make it do.

So far it has exceeded my expectations :P

Anonymous said...

Hi im courious what do you think about PerfectRaid. Im using that one actually and wanna see if it worth switching to Healbot.

Averna said...

KEEVA WHY U HAET ON HAELBOT HHEALBOT IS TEH BEST ADDON OUT THER.

Heh. Just kidding. <3

Really good write up! I've only ever used Grid, so reading about Healbot is helping me expand my horizons ^^

Also: "How this can be misconstrued as me bashing Healbot I don't know."

I don't know either. I think you're doing a great job keeping an objective view on both add ons.

Although I don't think that the two anonymous commentators were being defensive like you mentioned they were. I think they were just pointing a few things out. It's hard for me to tell anything though through text when you don't have the tone there as well.

Regardless, well done, and I can't wait to read more =)

Treemonster said...

Nice work, looking forward to reading the rest.

I'm a fan of grid myself and besides beeing able to display hots very well I also like the fact that it is easy to setup display of debuffs. For example add Ice Blast and put it on center icon and you can quickly identify who needs fast heals on KT.

Dunno if the other addons can do this, but its a big selling point for me.

I also know that "old habbits die hard" when it comes to addons. At least for myself. Few years back nurfed ui was basicly the best unit frame addon there was out there. I was a fan, and used it for years until I actually realized that there are newer addons that actually does the same thing, only better.

Anonymous said...

Hi Keeva,

I read your post about Grid with interesst, since I am using HB for some years now. What disturbs me a bit about your view on HB, is the fact that you have Grid and suspect HB to be like Grid (Hot-Icons for example). I must admit I dislike the "corner-orientated" style of Grid displaying Hots and other stuff, but that doesn't make Grid worse. Its just another view on the same stuff. (Not mend to offense you :) )

Beltain said...

I really appreciate all your work with this (and any future related) post. As another Walking Firewood in dungeons and raids, I agree that for my best healing performance, I need to have a relatively accurate HoT timer. Unfortunately right now, this has become a personal timer in my head. =( I am usually assigned MT with some splash raid healing so I click my target, and heal with key bindings. Then while the heal/GCD is being cast/ticking I click my next target, and so on. Effective but not necessarily the most efficient.

I am definitely your target audience with this post. I don't like spending hours and hours setting up raid frames/UIs. (I mean I want to actually PLAY the game ^^) I much prefer something that I can use with only a little tinkering. Best example is when I started with xPerl, but I got so overwhelmed with the choices/options (it also dropped my FPS from 60 down to 25 and that SUCKED for my target/key binding style of healing) so I have "downgraded" to xPerl Classic. I am happier but still not completely satisfied with my raid format.

Back in TBC I picked up Healbot due to all the comments about it being virtually ready to use straight out of the box. But what I found personally was that it only worked for me out of combat (lol) and that is hardly helpful. Sure I admit this was probably user-error. But I did end up tossing it and went back to my standard healing style. Lately I have heard all the hype about Grid so I picked it up last week and within the first 2 hours of getting no where with the trial and error mode of set up (never could change those tiny boxes into anything more readable), I tossed it. I'm still on the lookout for the 'best' raid frame/UI set up for my healing style.

Question: I know a lot of healers like to bind heals to their mouse buttons (but I am not one of those - too many years of key binding dependency I guess, and now my fingers just respond as I am assessing any fight's incoming damage) but can Healbot/Grid/Clique/"insert-name-of-other-healing-addon-here" still be used through keybindings? Or are they strictly dependent on mouse & click style healing?

Thanks again Keeva!

Crispy said...

Very happy to see this post. As an avid UI tweaker and a current grid user I'm always looking for the next best thing, and quality reviews are extremely helpful and can be hard to find.

Many thanks for taking the time to do this, and I'll be looking forward to the full write-up.

Flynx @ Bronzebeard said...

Keeva,

I have mucho respect for you undertaking this endeavor, consider the complexity of these 2 addons and the loyal following each has. I'm an avid Grid user, but I will try to keep an open mind. :)

One functionality that I believe will become even more important with the upcoming mana regen changes in 3.1, is viewing incoming heals. Grid accomplishes this with GridStausIncomingHeals & IncomingHealsLib. IMO, this a non-negotiable requirement... Does Healbot provide this functionality?

Thanks, and keep up the good work! :)

Flynx @ Bronzebeard

Kiryn said...

I have been using Pitbull for my raid healing for years now. A couple of weeks ago, I found myself getting annoyed at my fellow resto druid in the raid and the fact that Pitbull could not differentiate between my HoTs and his, and I had heard that Grid could do this. So I gave it an honest try.

I really liked its layout, and how I could show just the information I wanted without any of the fluff. However, the thing that eventually caused me to uninstall and go back to Pitbull was Grid's lack of coloring the health bar by percent remaining health. As far as I could find online, Grid CANNOT do this, and anyone who asks only got a reply of "why would you want to do that? You can already tell who's lowest on life by the size of the health bars!"

It's a mental thing. I don't react as quickly to a health bar being low if it's still a healthy green color. But Grid's method of being healthy green for all numbers above this percent and deadly red for all numbers below it really doesn't work for me. My form of triage works by staring at the whole raid at once and seeing whose health bar is furthest from healthy green, so I can tell who needs the heals the most.

Now, if Healbot can both color by remaining health and only show MY HoTs, I'll probably give it an honest try next. Well, at least while I'm waiting for the next version of Pitbull to come out.

Keeva said...

Anon: I haven't tried PerfectRaid yet but many people have mentioned it to me lately so I might have to have a look.

Averna: Thanks - it's actually quite tough to look at everything and then try to write it all up in a way that isn't a huge wall of text. It has to be fairly succinct and useful for people. That's actually the biggest challenge, pulling all the info together in a way that is meaningful.

Treemonster: I haven't had a chance to properly test the standard debuff features of Healbot (I just quickly had a look at the custom debuffs, since that is something I really value in Grid).

Anon: Don't worry, I'm not offended. Everyone has their preferences. To be honest, I love the look of Healbot's icons and the font - it looks very attractive - but the fact that I can't choose the positioning of those HoTs bugs me. I like having set places for my buffs and debuffs, but Healbot puts them up in the order that you cast them in, and that's no good for me. I'm sure I could manage with it, though. The icons are also too large (when legible) and cover the rest of the bar, meaning I can't read the health information. To fix that I either need to make my bar twice as big (taking up much more space) or put the icons outside the frame. So I like the look, but I think Grid does this better and you have more options to make the HoT timers easier to read and interpret.

Beltain: I don't want to seem like I am pushing Grid, but did you try my guides on how to set Grid up with HoTs etc? They have screenshots and step-by-step instructions to help, because I know Grid can be quite overwhelming. Regarding keybinds - I have heard that Healbot doesn't play nice with mouseovers and bindings, but my server crashed last night before I had a chance to test. Obviously this is a big deal for me and definitely something I will be testing!

Crispy: Thanks, and I agree, it's hard to find reviews that aren't heavily biased. Normally it's just "Grid is best because XYZ" or "Healbot is best because XYZ". Alternatively, a user of one mod taking a (usually incorrect) guess that the other mod can't do what theirs can.. sigh. So I set out to find out what both of them really can and can't do, side by side.

Flynx: I have seen that Healbot has a really attractive incoming heals display for MY heals, but I haven't tested it on incoming heals from other healers (I assume it's the same display). I will add that to the list of things to test and comment on in the future.

Kiryn: Grid by itself will NOT differentiate between several druids' HoTs. It will just show you a corner dot (or whatever you set it up to show) when there is ANY rejuv up, for example. However, with the module GridStatusHoTs, you can make it show only your own rejuv. So you can actually set it up to show any rejuv (say, a purple square), but if you want to see that your own is definitely up, you could have that set to show a bright pink square over the top of the purple one. When your pink one drops away you'll still be able to see if someone else's is up. Very handy actually. As far as I can tell, Healbot only shows your own HoTs (which is probably more useful as a default feature, most people only care about their own HoTs).

The health bar colouring is definitely a big deal. I am fairly certain Grid can't do it, so if that is something that is very valuable to you, Pitbull is better in that respect. As I mentioned earlier too, maybe people prefer the gree health bar style; I prefer to colour by class. I'll be testing Healbot by making it look like my Grid, but I'll try to also show what it would look like if I just made it a standard health bar.

The fantastic thing about this is that all you have to do to swap between the two is check one little radio button. Absolutely brilliant. So I won't be messing up all of my hard work formatting my layout - I can swap between the two in seconds.

But to answer your last line - yes, Healbot can colour by health (in shades that go from green, through yellow, to red, not in particular increments but gradually changing colour) AND show only your HoTs (with timers) :)


================================

Thanks everyone for commenting, I will make a note of all the questions and suggestions and make sure I touch on each of those items when I do my next installment :)

Anonymous said...

"I like having set places for my buffs and debuffs, but Healbot puts them up in the order that you cast them in, and that's no good for me."

I've lost you here. Healbot doesn't show your buffs it colours your bar until you apply your buff then it is all tranquil green again. If the buff falls off it lights up like a xmas tree again so you can't miss the fact that you need to reapply it. It also gives you an option to set the time when you need to reapply say 4 mins before it drops off so you can reapply before a boss fight and know it will be up the whole fight. but You'll discover this yourself I guess.

With grid I think it gives you a dot/icon if it is present?

Keeva said...

You can set that same kind of thing up with Grid (although I don't have it set up like that). You can either display buffs that are up, or buffs that are missing (or both, if you like). They can be corner squares, frame colour, border colour, you name it. There's no advance warning option though - you can't get it to tell you ahead of time that something is soon to fall off.

But I was more talking about HoTs, just badly worded.

I like having my HoTs (and some buffs, but mostly my HoTs) in particular corners. I always know that a counter in the top left is Rejuv, top right is Regrowth, etc.

Healbot displays HoT icons more like traditional buff displays; they are put onto the frame in the order that they go up, until they drop off again. So they will always line up in the same place, but will change position in that line according to which ones you cast first.

With Grid, HoTs are in the same positions every time you put them up; with Healbot, their position on the frame can only ever be set to inside left OR inside right OR outside top OR outside right (etc) for ALL of them (like an anchor), rather than being able to assign actual spots for each HoT.

With 3 or 4 HoTs up, my whole frame was covered and I couldn't see my name or health info. With Grid, I can convert these icons to dots or simply text timers to save clutter; with Healbot it seems that if you want the timer, you HAVE to have the icon, and since the size of the text is linked to the size of the icon, to be able to read the timers you need fairly large icons. This then snowballs and requires that you have large frames (or put the icons outside the frame).

It's a bit hard to explain what I'm waffling on about without pictures, but since this is something that is very important to my raiding, it will be something I will likely cover in detail :)

Teldor said...

I think the big deal breaker for me (and correct me if I'm wrong) is that Healbot can't show custom raid debuffs.

Iceblocks on Kelthuzad as one example - having an indicator for this in Grid is invaluable. Dark barrage and parasites on Illidan, spines on Najentus, doomfire on Archimonde - all of these are awfully important to know about as a healer. And let's not forget how much easier burn healing was with GridStatusBrutallus.

It's that level of customisation that separates the good healers from the great ones.

If Healbot can do that then I am misinformed and I apologise.

-Teldor of Caelestrasz

Keeva said...

Hi Teldor! :D

It sure can! You can have custom debuffs showing as either the entire frame colour, the aggro bar (top and bottom border, I think), or both.

The only difference is that you can only set one colour for ALL of your custom debuffs, not different colours for each.

Some people may see this as a good thing - it's certainly a bit of a pain having to choose a colour for every custom debuff in Grid, but personally I find it valuable in fights where I need to discern - Felmyst was one of them. But - that may be a rare thing, that you would need to have two different ones. Having all of your custom debuffs set to bright pink will definitely still get the job done.



And how do I know Healbot has this feature?

Because I stood on the top of a mountain in the Storm Peaks, plugged in "Oozeling's Disgusting Aura" as a debuff, and summoned my gross little friend.

My healbot turned purple! :D

(It was the only debuff I could think of that I could quickly put on myself for testing purposes) hehehe :)

Anonymous said...

Its interesting to see that the majority of people posting are Grid users.

I have to admit i tried Grid and just went to hard, and i tried Healbot and loved it. When I started using Healbot back in TBC it did not even have timers on the hot icons, but I found it really easy to setup and use and it gave me all of the functionality that I need to be able to heal effectively pretty much out of the box.

One thing i think that Healbot has going for it is that you don’t have to download 3-4 additional mods to get the extra functionality you might be after.

I can see where the additional functionality of grid might be useful but the question really should be "Do you really need all of that extra customization to be able to effectively raid heal?"

I think at at the end of the day it all comes down to athletics and personal preference and healing style.

A quick overview of how I use HealBot:

I understand where you coming from Keeva in regards to hot ordering and obscuring the HP bar, i personally have the icons on the left of the names and hp bars so the first thing i see when i look at the frames is the hots that are on my target. Even in 25 man setup the Healbot frame do not take up much more space than grid would. Keeping in mind that I also play on a 24” monitor so I have a lot of space to play with.

I think this is big factor to consider, if you’re playing on a 17-19” monitor grid might be the better of option because you can really condense all of the information into very small amount of space. Healbot does have its limitation on how compact you make it.

The other great thing that I found very useful with Healbot is that you can have different frame options for different instance eg 5 man 10 man 25 man PVP Battlegrounds. Also I think you can get a lot more functionality out of Healbot if you use the features that allow you to bind macros to Healbot raid frame clicks.

My current Healbot healing setup is

[1] Left Mouse = LB
[2] Left Mouse + Shift = Swiftmend
[3] Right Mouse = RJ
[4] Right Mouse + Shift = WG
[5] Middle Mouse = Nourish
[6] Middle Mouse + Shift = RG
[7] Left Mouse + Alt = De Poison
[8] Right Mouse + Alt = De Curse

NOTE: I hope this post does not come across like im to much of a Healbot fan boy =)

Vulpei said...

The main problem I have with healbot is that it encourages non-druids to heal things you have got hots on if you are raid healing. Granted this is an other people should be using grid while I use healbot problem, but it still annoys me when the priests cast sing target heals on people my hots will bring up in a few seconds anyway.

If healbot fixed this, I would have no problem with people in my raid using it, as it stands I have to bitch at everyone to get grid/clique so I can raid heal to any extent at all.

Lady Sita said...

Hi Keeva,

As a fresh young tree, new at healing and at the same time a old and wise Warlock used of burning things down, this is really helping me. I'm currently using Pitbull (Self, Target, Focus) + Grid (Party & Raid). But now as a healer I'm browsing the possible addons for my Druid. Together with Phae's info, your posts are really a big help, just wanted to says thanks... and looking forward to the last part of the Challenge.

Love Sita

Anonymous said...

"since the size of the text is linked to the size of the icon"

It isn't..keep playing with it ;)

Anonymous said...

Tell you what I like about this thread..old misconceptions are being dispelled (sorry for pun)

can't talk to each other - oops yes they can

no custom debuff..oops yes they have

etc

Felkan said...

For whatever reason it gets so little coverage, but check out Lifebloomer as well. I've used a few times when healing and it is really nice.

Check it out...

Nancy LC said...

I've used Healbot a bit but went back to my first love, Grid. There's actually quite a lot of configuration you can do with Healbot now. You can even setup a grid like arrangement. I did find Healbot more cluttered through. I love the minimalist look of Grid. It helps me focus and respond quicker. However, I struggled through Grid configuration when it was even worse than it is now! Healbot is definitely easier to configure.

I don't like click healing either, I use mouseover macros. So Healbot didn't really give me anything to celebrate in that area, whereas others might like it.

Don't let the idiots commenting here get you down. Some of us appreciate what you're doing. Focus on us.

Shamir said...

I'm certainly not going to attack, I really appreciate that you are doing a comparison to help the healing community. That you are a long-time grid user it is an even better evaluation of the tools, in my perspective, as the learning curve on grid is steeper.

First of all, I have used Healbot for quite a while, but seeing that "all the big healers" use grid I tried it. What I noticed right away was that the change in how my hots were displayed, and that some (wild growth) were not displayed, it made it harder for me. It took more thinking to decide what heal to use when than it does for me with Healbot.

I like the HoT timers that Healbot uses. It shows me at a glance (without reading due to the color change on the timer number) when various HoTs will drop off. I find it pretty easy to manage healing groups, 10 and 25 with Healbot.

What I am looking for in a healing tool is something that shows me the status of HoTs and gives me good situational awareness so that I can pay attention to the pool of goo that I have to step out of without losing a beat to apply a heal at the right time.

I did try grid and found it difficult to configure and never did get it to show me the information I was used to having. Perhaps it was a case of me being used to Healbot and trying to make grid look like Healbot?

Keeva said...

Gah.. you guys would make it much easier if you put a nickname in when you post, so many Anons to respond to :P

--------

Anon: I'm going to go ahead and take a stab that the reason most people here are Grid users is because (I have found) that most people are of the opinion that for druid healing, Grid is superior. That could be a factor. I wish I knew the actual numbers for Healbot vs Grid users out there, could be interesting to know.

Regarding the extra modules - they are really just extra ways to customise the mod to suit you - optional extras. You can run Grid as-is (and I did for a while) or you can add in little extras to really tailor it to you. I can see your point about not needing all those extras to heal - but think about the other side of it - a paladin isn't going to care about HoT timers, so why have that built in? There are some pretty crazy cool addons for Grid, but for most people, yes, there really ISN'T a need for those extras - but if you want them, they're available.

Grid is just designed to give you the framework and you build on it. For some people, this is a gigantic pain in the rear; for others, they see it as a way to have a fully customised mod without weighing it down with features they will never use.

Healbot, on the other hand, has the basics built-in; but doesn't have the level of customisation. So that's the trade-off. You get pretty much everything you need to get started as soon as you install, but you don't have the options to go crazy with customisation options.

I think my monitor is 17", thanks for rubbing that in :P

Grid also allows you to display differently for groups, 10 mans, 25mans, 40mans. :)

Grid doesn't have built-in click-casting functionality. That is a failing in a lot of people's minds. You can get around that by installing Clique though (but again, some people get annoyed that Grid doesn't have it built-in, like Healbot does).

Fanboy all you like! The more people give their objective opinions about the mods, the more people will learn what they can actually do.

--------

Vulpei: I think that is a problem with most raids, though, regardless of the frames people are using. I don't think many Grid users in my guild would think to have their Grid show my HoTs (unless I asked them to). Topping off my HoT targets has just been something that I have taken for granted, so it doesn't worry me too much.

This is especially true because I am not a raid healer, so I don't often get frustrated at my healing targets being sniped.

It's true though that (as far as I can tell) Healbot only shows you your own HoTs, not the HoTs of others in the raid. I could set Grid to show me who has Renew up, if I wanted to.. but I don't think I can get Healbot to show me that (correct me if I'm wrong). I can see how this would be valuable for some people.

--------

Lady Sita: I use Pitbull for my self, target, focus etc frames and I love it. I suspect I would also like Pitbull raid frames as an extension of that, but I have never tried it (I had Grid long before I got Pitbull).

Phae's info is great, I need to get a Resto4Life banner up on my sidebar (just haven't finished it yet) to point people there even now that she has stopped posting; her archived material will still be useful for a long time to come.

--------

Anon: I fully realise that you can change the size of the text independently of the icon (ie, you don't just scale up the size of the icon and the text goes with it). However, to get a text size that I can read easily, I need quite a large icon, or the text completely obscures the picture.

The Lifebloom counter is pretty obvious since it also has a stack, but the other HoTs aren't as recognisable just from their counters, so I need to see those icons. With text large enough to read, the icon has to be large to not be fully obscured (and by doing that, I obscure the rest of my bar.. argh! :P)

So that is what I meant by the size of the text being linked to the size of the icon. Not so much in a sense that changing the size of one will change the other, but in that you need to have a decent sized icon to be able to also have legible text AND still be able to see the picture behind.

Conversely, in Grid, I can put my HoTs in different corners, so I don't even need icons to know which of my HoTs are up.

Healbot's HoT display is very attractive, I love the look of the icons - but to be able to read the text, it just becomes too cluttered. Clutter is something I really dislike, and being able to read my HoT timers very easily is probably the biggest thing I need out of my raid frames, so obviously this is something I will be quite picky about. :)

So far a lot of things have surprised and delighted me about Healbot, but I'm afraid to say that my opinion is probably not going to change in respect to the HoT display. Healbot's HoT display is great, Grid's is better.

--------

Anon: I know, isn't that great? Heck, as soon as I started playing with Healbot I found a few things straight away that surprised me and would probably surprise plenty of others. Healbot has come a LONG way from the original.

--------

Felkan: I have heard very good things about Lifebloomer, but haven't used it myself because I prefer all of my info right on Grid.

As much as possible I like to have everything on my raid frames so that I don't have to look at other timers. I used to use HoTCandy for HoTs, but since swapping to GridStatusHoTs it has made a huge difference; I no longer have to look in two different places on my screen to track my HoTs - it's all on each person's frame.

This is just personal preference though, and I have heard a lot of people gushing about Lifebloomer and how good it is :)

--------

Nancy: I had a lot of fun making Healbot look like Grid. I was really surprised to be able to do that, actually - I have only ever seen people use Healbot with the green health bars.

So far I also find Healbot a bit more cluttered than Grid, but that is probably due to the fact that Grid is designed around small coloured indicators rather than icons etc, which obviously allows you to make your frame a lot smaller but still display the same information - as long as you are happy to be interpreting coloured dots rather than actual icons. So far I have found that I can't have my same small frames that I have with Grid - I need to have more room in the frame to be able to fit things in.

That isn't a huge deal - my Grid used to be larger than it is, it's only recently with the compact HoT timers that I've reduced the size so much. So having larger Healbot frames is fine, I don't mind that too much.

On the other hand, it handles buffs (well, missing buffs) really well, and does something Grid can't do: warn you when a buff will expire SOON (not just when it has already dropped off). I also found the warning sounds to be really cool - that is definitely something I REALLY wish Grid would do - a warning sound when someone gets a bad debuff would be awesome. I can already see it on Grid, but a sound would just be an extra safeguard.

So there are things in Healbot that I would LOVE Grid to be able to do, but there are also some things that just don't meet my expectations (I suppose you could say) for what I need to be able to see.

Overall I'm suprised and delighted by what Healbot CAN do, with only two small comments on things that it can do but not quite how I want it (ie varying my colours for debuffs, and the HoT display).

--------

Shamir: Grid can show WG.. perhaps WG wasn't added to the timers for a little while (I have only been using GridStatusHoTs for a shortish time). At the moment I only have WG showing as a yellow corner square, but with the change to the cooldown, I need to change that to see when it is coming back up.

Grid's HoT timers are a bit harder to get set up than Healbot's - Healbot's are built-in and you just need to configure the size. I just find that Grid's display is easier to read and interpret - I don't know why I waited so long to start using GridStatusHoTs, tsk :/

--------

I think I'm going to end up with carpal tunnel :P

Aertimus said...

Kiryn and Keeva - If I'm understanding you correctly... (Keeva, if this isn't want you were getting at take this down so I don't look like a n00b, k?)

Kiryn, you want your bars to go from healthy green to warning yellow to you are screwed red?

Keeva, you want your bars to start at class color and become warning red.

GRID CAN DO BOTH. It took me a freaking LONG time to do it and it was a year ago, but let me try to lay it out again.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Grid Main Menu-> Status-> Unit Health:
For Green Bars~
Color: Green
Priority: 70
Use Class Color: Unchecked!

For Class Color Bars~
Priority: 70
Use Class Color Bars: Checked!


Status-> Health-> Health Deficit:
Color - Yellow
Priority - 80
Health Threashold - 85
Enable - Checked!
Use Class Color - Unchecked!

Status-> Health-> Low HP Warning:
Color - Red
Priority - 98
Low HP Warning - 50
Enable - Checked!

Frame-> Health Bar Color:
Death Warning: Checked!
Low HP Warning: Checked!
Health Deficit: Checked!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Please let me know if thats what you two were looking for. I know when I switched to Grid from XPerl this was really important for me. I spent probably an hour on this alone the 1st day I had Grid.

I really think what Keeva is doing is noble! I wouldn't have the time or tolerance. I don't think I will ever leave Grid b/c its taken me so long to get it how I like it, but on the same note, I wouldn't ever recommend Grid to a very casual/new player.

Keeva said...

I think what Kiryn is saying is that Grid has specific health thresholds where the health will go from green to yellow to orange to red, but I think Healbot just gradually changes shades from green through red.

So sometimes the bars are greeny yellow as the health approaches 85%, but Grid waits for someone to hit 85% and then it turns straight from green to yellow.

(I think)

I'm not entirely sure because I've never used that feature :)

So as far as I can tell, Grid will show those colour changes at particular intervals, but swap straight from green to yellow. Kiryn likes the colour change to be gradual - which is how Healbot does it.

Grid has the feature, but Healbot does it better. Well, actually, I suppose that is a matter of whether you like dramatic changes in colour, or gradual ones :)

Anonymous said...

"Grid also allows you to display differently for groups, 10 mans, 25mans, 40mans. :)"

Healbot can do this.

Makes me gently smile when the self confessed ocd bag tidier say cluttered -- I think the rest of us are nodding saying yes yes ofc Keeva dear there there we know and secrectly thinking cluttered has an entirely different meaning for us! Bless her heart.

Lifebloomer ...sigh. If you are MT (or OT for that matter) healing it makes Healbot and Grid look like the ugly sisters. It's our add on, the druids add on. Although I use healbot for raid healing I use lifebloomer for tank healing. I can't tell you how wonderful that add on is. People like me gush for a very good reason. Great for 10 mans for the whole raid but too cumbersome for 25 mans (sob). When the day comes that you can have multiply columns on lifebloomer healbot will be relegated to the bin for me - much as I love it. That's how good lifebloomer is.

I think the fact I have lifebloomer for tank healing makes me not actually care if healbot shows hots 'better' or 'differently' (subjective opinions not withstanding).

I have a dirtly little confession, I don't use healbot for watching hot stacks, so I honestly dont care how healbot or grid display them. I only stack on tanks and I have my beloved lifebloomer for that. So if I'm raid healing the hot timers on the raid are pretty useless. All I need to know, hot wise that is, is if wg is up for nourish or whether rej in in place for a swiftmend. There are never going to be stacks on the raid to monitor.

I know it's not helpful saying go look at lifebloomer it's this it's that without any facts and it's not what is being evaluated; so I apologise now for off topic shameless gushing. Please forgive.

Keeva said...

The 5/10/25/40 man reference was a reply to a previous comment that implied that Healbot was handier because it could be set up with different group size layouts - I was just pointing out that Grid does this also.

Makes me gently smile when the self confessed ocd bag tidier say cluttered -- I think the rest of us are nodding saying yes yes ofc Keeva dear there there we know and secrectly thinking cluttered has an entirely different meaning for us! Bless her heart.

Good call :(

Lifebloomer does have an excellent display. The only reason I don't use it myself is because I prefer everything on my Grid, rather than using two different mods. Lots of people use Grid/Healbot/whatever but still have Decursive; it's just personal preference. I like everything to be on Grid if I can get it on there.

I'm not worried about people going off on addon tangents - if someone finds a great new healing tool from these comments, and it ends up helping them to heal more effectively, it can't be a bad thing by any stretch.

Anonymous said...

Here is the thing-- I noticed you tried to make Healbot look like Grid-- its not!

Yes there is the option to color code bars, and I think that was put in to encourage Grid users to try it out. However, by enabling the function to color health bars by class, you are ruing on the of the most beautiful things about Healbot!

If you leave the health bars as it is, you will notice when you heal, that the health bar will shrink and change color as a target loses health! So Full and Green means happy and healthy. The more health you lose it will turn to yellow, then orange, and when a target is about to die, then finally red before their bar goes grey! When I tried out Grid, I could not tell how much healing a target needed, it was hard to judge inside that tiny box. Half a box, a quarter of the box. I really couldn't tell how big of heal I need to apply. But on Healbot, you can see exactly how much health deficiency there is. The bars fill up and drain just like the bars on WoW's windows for player and party members, so its alot easier to judge what heals need to be applied, because you've been doing it since you started playing WoW.
If you really feel the need to see their class, you can change the name to be class colored, which what I have enabled.

As far as being concerned about coloring bars accordign to debuffs, and that it has only one option of color-- this dosesn't bother me! If target is in danger and I need to know they need to be healed, this does it for me. I dont need specific colors for specific debuffs. There's an option you can enable that shows an icon, just like the icon you get on listed on your toon in the top hand corner of your UI, that tells me what the debuff is. If its something I can cleanse or decurse, hey! I have options enabled to highlight their bars to let me know that too!

Anonymous said...

BTW: You can choose where to set your HOTs icons! There just not put into corners! You can have them on the bar, off the bar to the left, and off the bar to the right. They don't have to obsucre the bar. But if you make the icons small, not a big problem anways. Doesn't bother me that the Icon's switch places either. Its the same picture as the icon in your spell book, its not hard to discern at all. I also like being able to tell which HOT I applied first.

Kirin! Yes Healbot can both color bars from healthy green to deadly red and everything in between. It can also show only Your HoTs. You can also he incoming heals from other healers! And buffs, and debuffs, and aggro, and mana bars, rage bars, energy bars... Who is out of healing range, who is in healing range, who is dead, who is DCed. I only wish Healbot would show who is being rezzed and by who, so I could get rid of Xperl raid frames...

Anonymous said...

"With 3 or 4 HoTs up, my whole frame was covered and I couldn't see my name or health info. With Grid, I can convert these icons to dots or simply text timers to save clutter; with Healbot it seems that if you want the timer, you HAVE to have the icon, and since the size of the text is linked to the size of the icon, to be able to read the timers you need fairly large icons. This then snowballs and requires that you have large frames (or put the icons outside the frame)."

Sorry K, the HoT Icons size are Not Linked ot the size of timers, you can customized each independantly, and even move them off your bar! Keep fiddling with you Healbot, you'll find it.

Keeva said...

One of the major goals of this experiment is to see if the other major raid UIs can do what I want them to do and what I know Grid can do for me.

One of those things happens to be - colour by player frames by class.

I realise that you and others like the green health bar look, but I DEFINITELY do not. I really REALLY don't like it, I'm sorry. This is my preference.



Please read my previous comment about the HoT icon placement and why I don't like it. I don't think you quite understand what I mean :)

I also don't think you fully understand what I am talking about with regard to icon and text size. I know that changing the size of the icon does not change the size of the text (and vice versa) - what I am saying is:

> if I want to be able to read the timers, I have to make the text quite large

> if I make the text large, it obscures the icon, making it hard to tell which HoT it is

> therefore if I want large text, I need to also set larger icons

> larger icons obscure the bar.

> I don't want the icons outside the bar.


So while the text and icon sizes aren't literally linked, the size of the icon still depends on the size of the text because larger text requires a larger icon to make sure you can still see which HoT is underneath the numbers.



Am I describing this in a really confusing way, because I've had to explain it several times now and it's frustrating >_<

Anonymous said...

I didn't realize that this experiment revolved around you figuring out if you can find something you like better than Grid. I thought it was about comparing Healbot and Grid, and seeing if they could both get the same job done. Oh Well.

Keeva said...

Now I'm getting frustrated.

Comparing the two for my own personal interest is ONE of the goals.

But many times so far I have said that the major goal is to dispel the myths surrounding the mods, like "Healbot can't show you XYZ like Grid can" or "Grid takes 10 hours to set up"

The simple fact is, I can't possibly go into every single feature of Healbot because I'm NOT a long-term user and therefore I am not as familiar with it as I am with Grid.

All I can do is do a basic assessment of what the mod can do out of the box and with some tweaking, and then after that, the best way for me to test whether it is comparable to Grid is to take my "wishlist" (ie - all the things I currently have showing on Grid that I feel are important for a resto druid to have) and see if I can transfer those features over to Healbot.

That is simply the best way for me to test it, without being an expert in Healbot. I'm sure most people would understand the limitations I would face in trying to test a mod that I haven't been using for 3+ years.

So: in answer to your dig at my experiment:

I thought it was about comparing Healbot and Grid, and seeing if they could both get the same job done.

This is exactly what I am doing.





Please don't criticise if you clearly can't be bothered reading the whole thing.

Keeva said...

Here is a reiteration of the goals of this experiment.


1. A comparison of the two mods and how easy they are to use "out of the box." Which one is easier to use as a beginner? How long do they take to install, configure, tweak?

2. Comparing the features (as best as possible) of Healbot with those of Grid. To do that - basically pulling out the list of things that I have Grid show me, as a resto druid, in 25man raiding, and then trying to transfer these things over to Healbot. Rating both mods on how they display these "must-haves".

Obviously each healer's mileage may vary - you may want to see more than me, or less than me, or set things up completely differently - but to try to go through every option would be insane and instead I will just try to examine the major things resto druids need to see. This is the best I can do as someone who is NOT familiar with Healbot.

3. From the above, clear up some misconceptions about both mods, such as Grid being too hard to set up, Healbot not showing particular things, Grid needing a dozen extra modules, Healbot being for bad healers (and the list goes on).

I hope this helps.

Unfortunately I can't possibly cater for every person's healing style and go through every feature of both mods. The best I can do is show people how *I* do things and what I need to see in my raid frames, and rate both mods on how they do these things.

Aertimus said...

Kiryn - I went back and read your post since Keeva thought you meant something else than I thought. I'm still not sure if you knew about Grid being able to be a color (yellow) in between green and red at all. If you are talking about the gradual shading of the full range of colors between red and green, you are right, Grid cant do that, and I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.

As for Green versus Class Color Bars... I don't know if I can call that a function difference, but I think aesthetics are such a big part for everyone. You want what you look at to look nice. For me... If ALL I looked at was green... I would be less happy. But you are correct that it is more information for my mind to process. And if my bars were shaded all range of colors green to red, I DOUBT I would want all the class colors to keep track of.

Keeva - keep plowing through. You are doing a wonderful service to the healing community. You are bound to be met with resentment from people who aren't open minded and blunt comments from people who don't have time to read all your posts and comments. Don't forget, you will be met with love and appreciation from those of us who want to learn more and don't have the time or willpower to take on the massive task you have.

Kiryn said...

Aertimus: A sudden shift from "green" to "yellow" to "orange" to "red" at set percentages doesn't help me. My brain is VERY color-oriented. I grew up with a box of crayons that had several hundred different colors, and used them all.

I detect the slightest shift from this grassy bright healthy green to this slightly less bright slightly yellowish green. Detecting those minute color differences is part of what enables me to react so quickly when healing. Unless I want to set up a hundred different layers, each one with a very slightly different color, I don't think Grid is going to work for me.

I will definitely be trying out Healbot in the future.

Aertimus said...

Kiryn - As far as I know, Grid cannot set up more than 3 layers of colors. So it sounds like Healbot is the way for you. I missed the shifting colors at first, but found the 3 colors good enough. But I also am in no way at artsy type person, so I didn't notice the color subtitles you must notice. Sorry again for the misunderstanding!

Anonymous said...

I was a long time healbot user before switching to grid/clique. Healbot is great, nothing wrong with it. But when you switch to grid/clique, you can see the difference. You get a lot more information displayed in a smaller space. I can keep things neat and tidy. And the Hot counter is a huge difference, especially for a druid. Having timers for all your hots makes you way more efficient. If you are a priest though, Healbot will do you just fine.

What's funny about your post is I did the opposite of what you did. I tried to make Grid look more like healbot :) I don't like the class colors, I like green for full health, and red at 50% and below.

SpiritJacket said...

I just want to shine some light on this topic which might be helpful to a lot of users. when it comes down to the debate of Healbot vs Grid +Clique ....... I actually use both and I'll explain why.

For 5 man healing - Healbot
-w the recent additions to healbot, it is more astetically pleasing then grid. The frames can be made larger so even though you cannot assign a specified hot to a specified corner, it is not necessary. So in this case ... one solid line of hots on the bottom of my screen is easier to register then scanning over 4 corners of 5 bars to see which hots to refresh.

Although [w the addition of gridstatusthreat] you can set 3 different colors [i assined it to the border of teh frame] to see which member of the group is starting to rise on threat so that you can start to hot them up in anticipation of damage - - - on healbot this can be altered so that your aggro alert starts at somewhere around 70-75% aggro alert so that you are not just picking up the tank who should be hovering around a 95-99 % aggro range ... 99% aggro being the highest ... bec he cannot generate more threat them himself.

10 man healing ..... i go with healbot w this one again and largely for one simple fact. .... when you have 10 ppl and you change the amount of rows that you have to 3 INSTEAD OF 2 ... you now create a window in the bottom left hand corner of your healbot where there are no frames and you can move the heal bot so that your character is in that window. you free up valuable space in fights liek KT [naxx] where you are watching for shadow fissures. also ... i am in love w how the healbot shows things like iceblock [saph & kt] the entire frame goes purple - - thats how i have it set up ... i can attend to those people much faster then i normally would be able to on grid. aall in all visually and funstionally speaking healbot > grid in 10 mans imo.

25 mans - - Grid : i use my grid and clique for 25 mans .. even tho [same as 10 mans] you can set up your healbot to display 7 rows instead of 5 and create that valuable window in the bottom left hand corner : 'hot clutter' becomes an issue .... your role as a druid in a 25 man unless you are gear and specified to a tank [in this case you are most likely glyphed w nourish and have your 7.5 4 set bonus], your role is raid healing damage mitigation ... keep the raid alive long enough for nuk healers to do their job. in this case i could care less how long each hot has left on the target ... i use grid ... grid status hots, grid status threat, grid status lifebloom - i know grid has its own aggro monitor .. but like i said i can see who is rising thru the threat meters and who i should be anticipating to heal. i have my regrowth hot as WHITE in the top right corner ... my LIFEBLOOM in the center text 2 slot, my REJUV as PURPLE in the top left corner, POISON AND CURSE DEBUFFS in the bottom right corner, and my WILD GROWTH as a light blue in the bottom left corner ... when the frame border does to stage 2 .. i throw hots .... each of the hots is indicated by a box ... no need to clutter your screen w numbers inside of boxes for 25 ppl.

thats my 2 cents ...

Anonymous said...

Hey all,

I would just like to thank keeva for what she's done here. I'm a bear tank, but with dual spec's I've decided to be a tree aswell to improve my utility to my guild.

I healed for a brief stint when I hit 70 before going back to tanking - I wasn't doing a very good job. I was at the time using lifebloomer (which I would 3rd as being a very visually appealing addon) but wasn't very effective at using my buttons to heal, and so went back to tanking which I do far better at.

It has come to my attention now, though, that a 'clickable' heal addon (such as healbot / grid'n'clique) will far better suit my computer skills, and have been tossing up which to actually use.

After reading this whole post I'm probably going to go with healbot - mainly for the ease of setup factor, and the nkoowledge that if it feels uncomfortable I can try grid.

The reason I'm saying all this is simply to say that, whether it's helped anybody else or not, I really appreciate what you have done here. I will be making a more informed decision for it, and that will probably help me be a better healer and enjoy the game more.

/tar Keeva
/Thankyou
/Cheer

Rock on!

~Anrock @ Nagrand~

Keeva said...

Thank you :)

I still have to write a final entry to tie everything together and give my final opinion. But I have found Healbot to be quite competitive - in some ways it does things better than Grid.

Egregious Jones said...

Hi! Your review and the discussion have been a great help to me - I'm relatively new to healing (I've been cutting my teeth on AV, as I only recently hit 70), and I've been using Healbot. There are a few things about Healbot that I don't like, so I've been thinking of switching to Grid, so even though you did your writeups awhile ago, I found them at just the right time.
BTW, I don't think that anyone who's read much of your blog would take you to be taking potshots at an addon.

Haylia said...

Hiya Keeva,
Thanks for your comparison :D On the basis of your reviews & a few others, I am going with healbot - I'm new to tree form, so it seems the extra configurability of grid is a recipe for more confusion to me, it seems healbot is more user friendly for beginners. So thats my choice. :D

Another thing I am interested in: I have read that healbot can be faster for some users as it gleans information from the combat log whereas grid is taking its information from the server. The difference reported by one user (EJ tree UI discussion thread) is in the order of seconds! Other people report no difference in speed for grid & healbot at all. i would love to see more in depth analysis of this (if it is indeed a valid point).

Anyway thankyou for the review it was very helpful, have a good one :D

stillsong said...

hello Keeva,
I have healed since vanilla wow when the highest level was sixty. Then I used the wow frames as they were. In BC I started using grid and I totally love it, even though it is truly hard to set up and requires several addons to be really useful; once you get it working the way you want it, its brilliant and very fexible and all info is clear and easy to see, so much in one small square per person (or rectangle etc as you can resize and shape those squares)

But when 3.2 dropped I was having terrible problems with grid, even after checking for, and updating every day, when updates arrived. Most of the info I needed was no longer displaying and after a week of raids in this state i changed to healbot

I have been working with healbot for maybe two weeks now as a raid heal in both ulduar and the new 25 man.

I think it has some great features and it was very easy to set up. I like that you can set stuff to the mouse, so you dont need clique and that is it so easy to set up

but still I miss grid horribly and I think its because the info is so unclear and so cluttered with healbot, for someone who uses so many hots and needs to watch them, and even after making the space for each person bigger and the icons smaller the info is too cluttered. if healbot could use little corner and sidebar squares for info instead of what they have it might be close to perfect, because it doesn't need or rely on extra addons. When I use grid i actually have around six or eight other addons working with it to provide all I need

I do want to go back to grid though, its simple, gorgeous easy to read info is what I crave

I am hoping that the problems it had are ironed out and I am going to reload it today, and have both available so if one goes down I have the other already set

As a hot healing resto druid, my preference is for grid

wish me luck

Pete said...

stillsong said... "But when 3.2 dropped I was having terrible problems with grid, even after checking for, and updating every day, when updates arrived."

Same deal for me really. Grid seems to be in a phase at the moment where the modules you want for it dont seem to be updated often and are always breaking.

Grid2 should hopefully solve this with most of those modules being in the core and therefore less hassle for us (save for mana bars which the Grid devs seem to have a total hatred for).

But Grid2 is taking its time being released, and one of the main authors seems to be quitting it to do something else. So it might take awhile for a release version to surface.

I personally prefer Grid because to me it is highly configurable, compact, and just looks cleaner than any alternative I have tried.

But I am now thinking I will also go down the Healbot route until Grid (and the modules I use for it) get their act together.

Great post btw Keeva.

Anonymous said...

Hi this is a fairly new tree but not so fresh out of the box taht i haven't learned to heal dungeons successfully. i have yet to heal a serious raid (i've only been ran through tempest and kara with some 80s). my main concern is ive come up with my own style of healing. i have various macros to make sudo flash heals, double click instant heals and everything i do is mouseover which makes it easy to reapply hots. i depend on keybindings to like a lifboat! is there any adon taht can jsut give me my unitframes for all the groups of a raid and show hots automatically because i know ill need that in a raid. thanks fr your time and if anyone wants those macros just email me at trevordellis@sbcglobal.net
-lleeroyy jenkins
-azgalor

Anonymous said...

also sorry for the dyslexia of that post. i was in the middle of changing classes and had to write it in about 3 minutes